Meeting
Date: November 23, 2004
Time: 9:30
am
Place: NJSIAA
Administration Building
In
attendance: Carl Rickershauser (State Rules Interpreter, Cross-Country Meet
Referee), James Casey (Assistant to the Tournament Director), Lou Fraulo (Chief
timer and scorer for Groups and M of C); Wayne Letwink (North II Section Meet
Director), Beth Moroney (Central Section Meet Director), John Pontes (Coach,
Clifton High School), James Camburn (South Section Meet Director), Frank Calise
(Assistant Scorer and Timer), Joseph McLaughlin (Coach, Notre Dame High
School), Don Danser (Tournament Director, Assistant Director NJSIAA)
First
order of business was correspondence:
1. Pennsauken
athletic director stated that the Group Meet was a “total disaster” and a
“fiasco” because NJSIAA could not find alternate parking when the park closed
the grass fields because of the heavy rain from the night before the meet.
This
will always be a problem when the park cannot use unpaved fields for overflow
parking because of heavy rains. There have been no adequate, affordable
solutions proposed that would solve this problem. Holmdel Park has several
limitations, the biggest of which is parking.
2. A
letter from South Jersey Track Coaches Association was received with signatures
representing twenty schools requesting the Meet of Champions go back to 11:00
am or even to Noon. They also proposed that the sectional qualifications should
follow what the NCAA does, which basically guarantees that at least 5
individuals whose teams did not advance would advance from each race.
The
committee felt that 10:00 am starting time for every meet has more advantages
than disadvantages. Every year either boys or girls teams must start the Group
meet at 10:00/10:25am. The winter and spring meets start even earlier. They
voted to keep the times at 10:00 am. No team was in the park at 6:00 am (as
stated in the Coaches letter), at least not legally, since the park is not open
until daybreak.
The
second issue of making sure more individuals get to the group meet is one that
is brought up every year. There are several reasons why the committee (whose
members change regularly) always reject these proposals. First of which is the
fact that five (5) teams qualify. If the “NCAA” model applied to just two races
this year, in central Group I girls meet, which had only 55 total runners, to
get 5 individuals whose teams had not advanced, would have required the
advancement of the 21st runner. In this same section, in Group 2,
the 23rd girl out of 82 would have qualified. The committee did not
feel that this would be appropriate. The same thing already happened a few
years ago when this method was applied to the Group Meet. Girls and boys in the
high 30’s were advancing. Secondly, Cross-Country is a TEAM sport. The TEAM
gets preference over the INDIVIDUALS.
3. Committee
members reported that they were asked by many coaches: “Why was the Cherokee
girls team advanced to the Meet of Champions. They were sixth in their group 4
race. The rule says: ‘teams will be non-placing teams whose top five (5)
runners have the two best total times of all non-medaling teams from all the
Group races. Reminder: Place is never overruled by time.’”
Group
4 girls results: 4th Ridgewood with total time of 1:43.17; 5th
West Windsor-Plainsboro South with 1:43.28; and Cherokee with 1:42.49 No other
teams had a time better than those just listed. Ridgewood and Cherokee qualified by having the two fastest times.
Since place cannot be overruled by time, West Windsor-Plainsboro was the 3rd
team to advance. The phrase “Place never overrules time” was not meant to mean
that the team with the best time would be excluded. It was meant to mean that
West Windsor-Plainsboro South could not be excluded because they placed higher
than the team with a better Total Time. When this happened in 2002 with Red
Bank Regional, the rule was not clear on what to do with a team placing 8th
with the 2nd best team time. In 1998, one at-large team was added.
The rule stated that the “wild card” would be chosen from the 4th
place team that had the best time. In 1999, a second wild card was added. But
the rule just stated the teams who had not qualified by placing 1st,
2nd, or 3rd with the best total time would advance. Until
2002, no wild card had a better time than a team placing ahead of them. As
happens in this and other sports – new situation required a ruling – Only
Moorestown and Princeton (4th and 5th respectively) would
advance, with Red Bank Regional in 8th place with the best time
would not. Because of the original 1998 rule, it was then assumed that the team
had to be 4th or 5th. The committee in 2002 (after the
season), added the Place over time rule, not to exclude Red Bank Regional if
the situation should arise again, as it did this year.
Because
of this the committee decided to amend the regulations to read: “must be a
member of one of two (2) at-large teams. These teams will be non-placing teams
whose top five (5) runners will have the two best total times of all 4th and 5th
place teams from all the Group races.” (New portion underlined and in
bold)
The
place rule still applies, but not to a team placing lower than 5th.
For example: In the Group 3 Girls race,
Team D was fourth with a total time of 1:43.14; Team E in the same race was 5th
with a time of 1:42.10. In Group 4 Girls, Team F was fourth with a total time
of 1:44.0, while Team G had a time of 1:42.20. In Non-Public A, Team H finished
6th with a time of 1:42.15.
By
the rule as it has been amended, Teams D, E, F, and G would advance while Team
H would not. Reason: Team E and G were 5th. The two 4th
place teams, D and F can not be excluded because they finished higher than E
and G. Team H is excluded because the rule requires a 5th place or
higher finish.
Overall
the feedback about the meets was very good. The meets appeared to go well on
all levels, even with rain during the first race of the Meet of Champions.
Coaches
at the Group Meet were surveyed as to how the tournament dates should flow. The
tournament dates are based on Thanksgiving. The Meet of Champions will always
fall on the Saturday before Thanksgiving. This is because the winter season
starts the Friday after Thanksgiving. In the past the two weekends preceding
the Meet of Champions were used for the Sectionals and the Group Meets. The
flow was three straight Saturdays. The survey asked if the coaches would like
to go back to that “flow,” but when Sectionals would fall on the first Saturday
of November (which it would five out of seven years, use Sunday of that weekend
for Sectionals to avoid any conflict with the SAT’s. The respondents (98)
rejected the use of Sunday for Sectionals more than 2 to 1.
After
lengthy discussion, which included the facts that now there are more dates,
especially in October, to take these exams, and that the exam dates are known
by every guidance department for the next five years. Also, cross-country is
the only sport to avoid this weekend, which causes an “unnatural” flow to the
tournament (i.e. Sectionals, league/county championships, State Group, and then
Meet of Champions). In the spring the same “problem” is there with the State
Group Track and Field Meets, but since everyone knows this in advance, those
students with astute coaches know to schedule these tests on a different date. Therefore the committee voted unanimously to
hold the Sectionals on Saturday, November 5, 2005; the Group Meets, Saturday,
November 12, 2005, and the Meet of Champions, Saturday, November 19. Student/Athletes
should be made aware of this as soon as possible.
The
Schedules for next year will be:
Sectionals (Sat. 11/5/05) Group Meet (Sat. 11/12/05) Meet
of Champions (Sat. 11/19/05)
10:00 Girls Group 3 Girls Non-Public A 10:00
Girls
10:25 Girls Group 2 Girls Non-Public B 10:45
Boys
10:50 Boys Group 3 Boys Non-Public A
11:15 Boys Group 2 Boys Non-Public B
11:40 Girls Group 4 Girls Group 4
12:05 Girls Group 1 Girls Group 1
12:30 Boys Group 4 Boys Group 4
12:55 Boys Group 1 Boys Group 1
1:20 Girls
Group 3
1:45 Girls
Group 2
2:10 Boys
Group 3
2:35 Boys
Group 2
The
only problem we seem to keep having is the way coaches submit rosters:
1.
They MUST be in a file created by HY-TEK
2.
They must contain no more than 12 boys and/or 12 girls names
3.
They must be e-mailed to Lou Fraulo without using HOTMAIL
4.
The e-mail’s SUBJECT must contain the SCHOOL’S NAME and that the roster is for
the STATE Tournament.
An example: Rancocas Valley boys and girls State Tournament Rosters
5.
Coaches MUST check Mr. Fraulo’s website to make sure he has received their
rosters and that the rosters are correct.
If
these steps are followed, there won’t be athletes showing up and not being
allowed to run because we have not hy-tek roster from their school.