Meeting Date:             November 23, 2004

Time:                9:30 am

Place:               NJSIAA Administration Building

 

In attendance: Carl Rickershauser (State Rules Interpreter, Cross-Country Meet Referee), James Casey (Assistant to the Tournament Director), Lou Fraulo (Chief timer and scorer for Groups and M of C); Wayne Letwink (North II Section Meet Director), Beth Moroney (Central Section Meet Director), John Pontes (Coach, Clifton High School), James Camburn (South Section Meet Director), Frank Calise (Assistant Scorer and Timer), Joseph McLaughlin (Coach, Notre Dame High School), Don Danser (Tournament Director, Assistant Director NJSIAA)

 

First order of business was correspondence:

 

1.             Pennsauken athletic director stated that the Group Meet was a “total disaster” and a “fiasco” because NJSIAA could not find alternate parking when the park closed the grass fields because of the heavy rain from the night before the meet.

 

This will always be a problem when the park cannot use unpaved fields for overflow parking because of heavy rains. There have been no adequate, affordable solutions proposed that would solve this problem. Holmdel Park has several limitations, the biggest of which is parking.

 

2.         A letter from South Jersey Track Coaches Association was received with signatures representing twenty schools requesting the Meet of Champions go back to 11:00 am or even to Noon. They also proposed that the sectional qualifications should follow what the NCAA does, which basically guarantees that at least 5 individuals whose teams did not advance would advance from each race.

 

The committee felt that 10:00 am starting time for every meet has more advantages than disadvantages. Every year either boys or girls teams must start the Group meet at 10:00/10:25am. The winter and spring meets start even earlier. They voted to keep the times at 10:00 am. No team was in the park at 6:00 am (as stated in the Coaches letter), at least not legally, since the park is not open until daybreak.

 

The second issue of making sure more individuals get to the group meet is one that is brought up every year. There are several reasons why the committee (whose members change regularly) always reject these proposals. First of which is the fact that five (5) teams qualify. If the “NCAA” model applied to just two races this year, in central Group I girls meet, which had only 55 total runners, to get 5 individuals whose teams had not advanced, would have required the advancement of the 21st runner. In this same section, in Group 2, the 23rd girl out of 82 would have qualified. The committee did not feel that this would be appropriate. The same thing already happened a few years ago when this method was applied to the Group Meet. Girls and boys in the high 30’s were advancing. Secondly, Cross-Country is a TEAM sport. The TEAM gets preference over the INDIVIDUALS.

 

3.             Committee members reported that they were asked by many coaches: “Why was the Cherokee girls team advanced to the Meet of Champions. They were sixth in their group 4 race. The rule says: ‘teams will be non-placing teams whose top five (5) runners have the two best total times of all non-medaling teams from all the Group races. Reminder: Place is never overruled by time.’”

 

Group 4 girls results: 4th Ridgewood with total time of 1:43.17; 5th West Windsor-Plainsboro South with 1:43.28; and Cherokee with 1:42.49 No other teams had a time better than those just listed.  Ridgewood and Cherokee qualified by having the two fastest times. Since place cannot be overruled by time, West Windsor-Plainsboro was the 3rd team to advance. The phrase “Place never overrules time” was not meant to mean that the team with the best time would be excluded. It was meant to mean that West Windsor-Plainsboro South could not be excluded because they placed higher than the team with a better Total Time. When this happened in 2002 with Red Bank Regional, the rule was not clear on what to do with a team placing 8th with the 2nd best team time. In 1998, one at-large team was added. The rule stated that the “wild card” would be chosen from the 4th place team that had the best time. In 1999, a second wild card was added. But the rule just stated the teams who had not qualified by placing 1st, 2nd, or 3rd with the best total time would advance. Until 2002, no wild card had a better time than a team placing ahead of them. As happens in this and other sports – new situation required a ruling – Only Moorestown and Princeton (4th and 5th respectively) would advance, with Red Bank Regional in 8th place with the best time would not. Because of the original 1998 rule, it was then assumed that the team had to be 4th or 5th. The committee in 2002 (after the season), added the Place over time rule, not to exclude Red Bank Regional if the situation should arise again, as it did this year.

 

Because of this the committee decided to amend the regulations to read: “must be a member of one of two (2) at-large teams. These teams will be non-placing teams whose top five (5) runners will have the two best total times of all 4th and 5th place teams from all the Group races.” (New portion underlined and in bold)

 

The place rule still applies, but not to a team placing lower than 5th. For example:  In the Group 3 Girls race, Team D was fourth with a total time of 1:43.14; Team E in the same race was 5th with a time of 1:42.10. In Group 4 Girls, Team F was fourth with a total time of 1:44.0, while Team G had a time of 1:42.20. In Non-Public A, Team H finished 6th with a time of 1:42.15.

 

By the rule as it has been amended, Teams D, E, F, and G would advance while Team H would not. Reason: Team E and G were 5th. The two 4th place teams, D and F can not be excluded because they finished higher than E and G. Team H is excluded because the rule requires a 5th place or higher finish.

 

 

Overall the feedback about the meets was very good. The meets appeared to go well on all levels, even with rain during the first race of the Meet of Champions.

 

Coaches at the Group Meet were surveyed as to how the tournament dates should flow. The tournament dates are based on Thanksgiving. The Meet of Champions will always fall on the Saturday before Thanksgiving. This is because the winter season starts the Friday after Thanksgiving. In the past the two weekends preceding the Meet of Champions were used for the Sectionals and the Group Meets. The flow was three straight Saturdays. The survey asked if the coaches would like to go back to that “flow,” but when Sectionals would fall on the first Saturday of November (which it would five out of seven years, use Sunday of that weekend for Sectionals to avoid any conflict with the SAT’s. The respondents (98) rejected the use of Sunday for Sectionals more than 2 to 1.

 

After lengthy discussion, which included the facts that now there are more dates, especially in October, to take these exams, and that the exam dates are known by every guidance department for the next five years. Also, cross-country is the only sport to avoid this weekend, which causes an “unnatural” flow to the tournament (i.e. Sectionals, league/county championships, State Group, and then Meet of Champions). In the spring the same “problem” is there with the State Group Track and Field Meets, but since everyone knows this in advance, those students with astute coaches know to schedule these tests on a different date.  Therefore the committee voted unanimously to hold the Sectionals on Saturday, November 5, 2005; the Group Meets, Saturday, November 12, 2005, and the Meet of Champions, Saturday, November 19. Student/Athletes should be made aware of this as soon as possible.

 

The Schedules for next year will be:

Sectionals (Sat. 11/5/05)            Group Meet (Sat. 11/12/05)            Meet of Champions (Sat. 11/19/05)

10:00    Girls Group 3             Girls Non-Public A                 10:00 Girls

10:25    Girls Group 2             Girls Non-Public B                 10:45 Boys

10:50    Boys Group 3             Boys Non-Public A                

11:15    Boys Group 2             Boys Non-Public B

11:40    Girls Group 4             Girls Group 4

12:05    Girls Group 1             Girls Group 1

12:30    Boys Group 4             Boys Group 4

12:55    Boys Group 1             Boys Group 1

                                    1:20            Girls Group 3

                                    1:45            Girls Group 2

                                    2:10            Boys Group 3

                                    2:35            Boys Group 2

 

 

The only problem we seem to keep having is the way coaches submit rosters:

1. They MUST be in a file created by HY-TEK

2. They must contain no more than 12 boys and/or 12 girls names

3. They must be e-mailed to Lou Fraulo without using HOTMAIL

4. The e-mail’s SUBJECT must contain the SCHOOL’S NAME and that the roster is for the STATE Tournament.

     An example:  Rancocas Valley boys and girls State Tournament Rosters

5. Coaches MUST check Mr. Fraulo’s website to make sure he has received their rosters and that the rosters are correct.

 

If these steps are followed, there won’t be athletes showing up and not being allowed to run because we have not hy-tek roster from their school.